Such a waste of resources for Haley to try and get her way. How much state tax dollars were spent to try and prove a point for Haley when it backfired in her face. No reason for voter ID law.

There is no need for voter ID it was just a tool used by the Republicans to Suppress Votes! They don't mind spending money on a non issue but refuse to give tax brakes to the 99%. Shame on them all!

That won't stop the Republicans from continuing to claim this. They don't let facts get in the way of an argument.

Queen Nimrata has built her entire political career on lies, graft and distortion. This is not a surprise.

The SEC employees were forced to waste 1,000 hours (minimum of $150,000 in taxpayer dollars) on this witch hunt - to no avail. Haley is a very, very, very miniature of Joe McCarthy - looking for evil everywhere, and it turns out the evil is within herself and her party.

"The investigation of these claims has been very costly to the Agency in both time and resources,"
So, what else would the people who did the investigation have been doing? Would the high cost of them checking these votes have been spent on something else or, would they have spent the same amount of money on regular business happpenings? Were they paid overtime for doing this? Or, was it just part of doing their regular job? I have never understood how counties, cities, states and others can say they spent x amount of dollars doing something when the people who were doing it were going to be paid for their days work no matter what they were doing that day.

I work for the state government, that money could help fund our raise since the state employees haven't had in three years.

Considering the debacles surrounding the vote in the Republican Primaries, lost precinct votes in Iowa, lost caucus votes in Maine, 48 hour delays of the vote in Nevada, "missing" votes in Florida, attempted fraud in New Hampshire, documented voter fraud by the Asst. Sec of State in Indiana...
Lets get the GOP to clean up it's own act before they disenfranchise millions!

What?
A Republican just making something up?

Well I nevah!

When is she going back to Gay Paree - at taxpayer expense,
to find more jobs?

In South Carolina, every state-wide office is held by a Republican. Both Senators are Republicans. 5 of the 6 Congressmen elected in SC are Republican. The majority of the SC Legislature are Republicans.

They run the state, and it always amazes me that with the fact the state has a large deficit, one of the highest unemployed rates in the nation, wages are below the median nationally, and Republicans or their appointees cannot keep the voter rolls accurate enough to determine if dead people are voting.

Why do people in SC vote for Republicans with their dismal track record.

Until the people of South Carolina wake up and realize that while trying to hold minorities back they people they keep voting for are also holding them back, Just in case someone ask, Yes I was born and raised in this good old boy stste

Another waste of tax money.

Just as the commentor above SteveFromEuluss indicated, even as the Republicans have made themselves the self-styled proponents defending the electorate against alleged voter fraud, during their presidential nominee contest there have been numerous instances of the very voter fraud against which they rail. More do as we say, not as we do from this party of double standards....

http://electionfraudblog.com/daily-election-fraud-news/ plenty to go around :)

"Why do people in SC vote for Republicans with their dismal track record."
To me, the biggest indicator was the 1960's. South Carolinians voted Democratic until then because it wasn't the party of Lincoln. Then the dem's passed the voting rights act and began to lead in civil rights, Lyndon Johnson etc. The state changed to Repub's.
Why? South Carolinians have a deep seated racial prejudice and fear, even after all this time. It takes irrational turns, even to voting against their best interests; old, white men in the legislature, low wages, right-to-work, hatred of the federal govt even though it costs them money (Zais etc).
It's a bunker mentality in SC coming from losing the Civil War, and irrational. A low voter turn-out helps the Joe Wilson's stay in office although by any rational standard he would have been voted out long ago.
Instead we have Joe Wilson and his son Alan, both see Congress as a great job(which it is), lots of perks and both will play to South Carolinians fears and ignorance and quietly laugh behind their hands.

Moving to SC? Want to vote in 2012? SC DMV issues voter ID cards and driver's licenses- offices open 9-5, M-F. New laws require a valid passport, social security card, valid out-of-state license, and a utility, bank, or tax statement showing name and street address (spouses be sure to have you name on these accounts). Took me 2 trips to the DMV, about 50 miles, 2 days, and 8 hours of waiting. On the day of the GOP Primary, the local news warned voters to "be on the lookout for voter fraud," listing them on their website, ginning up fear to justify the new laws. I have to wonder how many South Carolinans have a valid passport and of what race, economic class, age, or political party they are?

Shame on Mr. Shwedo and Mr. Wilson for going on National TV to make unverified claims that reflected poorly on South Carolina.

It's time for the U.S. Justice Department to take control of these outlandish tactics by the Republican Party in States where they invoke voter fraud and see to it that Americans are allowe to voice their vote!

Election day, Nov. 2008. I heard two people complain about the long lines at two different polling places in the Charleston SC area. I replied that it was encouraging to see American citizens participating in such numbers. To which both replied, "Not if the lines are full of "those people". I asked who "those people" were, and they looked at me as if I'd dropped in from outer space, or as they say here, the north. I think, for a nano-second, both were slightly embarrased, but that quickly faded, and they knew that I knew who they were referring to. Duh. Soon, after a black president was elected, the other people fabricated a conspiracy Oliver Stone would be proud of. Nice try.....Chusk Lemins

As an independent, I can see the fatal flaws in both parties. But, as stated before you need a photo ID for pretty much everything.
It's my hope and dream that my 1st born child, the day he is born, be microchipped. That way I can act like big government and control and watch at all times. Scary times ahead. Think the show on Discovery "Doomsday Preppers" is making more sense. How i envy my grandfather being part of "The Greatest Generation". RIP.

WW

JoSCH
I'm fine society. I think you need to relax and hold your hand out and wait for a government handout.

WM M: Nice piece of original riposting. It's not the amount the rich pay its the percentage. They were doing fine before the BUSH cuts, now they are doing better, can't be said for that 20% to 30% of wages earners. Whose wage has been flat of over a decade. As for your lame repetition of the 45% who don't pay federal tax, I guess it never occurs to you that they are below the earned income level to pay taxes. Mostly poor folk. Yet they do pay sales tax, school taxes, parking meters (a tax) and every other state and municipal taxes that apply. In your eyes the less fortunate are skating along in life. Shame on you. This one of the most shameless canards the GOP-Teahadists have come up with. 45% don't pay any Fed Tax. Do you know how silly you sound repeating a blatant propaganda line aimed at poor people? Just a tad bit of empathy (sorry bad word for conservatives, indicates weakness) would go along way in your judgement of your fellow USA citizens.
Also, the 1% benefited from legislation that had no benefit for the other 99%. If fact the bottom paid for the success of the top. They have our money. Tax cuts have to be paid for in someway. Can't keep adding to the near trillion BUSH borrowed from China for 2 failed wars.

Wounded warrior: I didn't mention the trillion to elicit a childish come back. i.e.; But mommy, bobby had 2 cookies.
What does R rated or NC-17 and a typo have to do with the broader issue of voter suppression?

Bobby won't share he is a GOP-Teahadist, they don't believe in sharing.

Completed adjusted. All is in alignment.

The RIGHT to go to the movies, is NOT in the constitution. If you want to partake of some VOLUNTARY activity, movies (over 17 to see an R-movie), drinking at a bar (21), DRIVING a car, and as the previous poster MEANT to say, you MAY need an ID to do most any VOLUNTARY activity. Yes, you need ID to cash a check, but again, A, it's for your protection, and B, it's still VOLUNTARY. YOU don't HAVE to have a CHECKING account. VOTING is ENTIRELY different, ESPECIALLY, when there was and STILL IS, voter suppression of blacks, minorities and poor folk. ESPECIALLY when the RIGHT to VOTE is in the CONSTITUTION. GOING TO THE MOVIES is NOT!!!

And one MORE thing, it's DIFFERENT again to blame the new POTUS for the mess the former POTUS left him. You people make it sound like the PRESIDENTjust gave 6 trillion dollars to illegal immigrants and welfare queens!! Lets see where MOST of that money went. 2 trillion for the 2 UNFUNDED wars that were kept "off the books" for the entire BUSH presidency. 2 trillion for tax cuts for MILLIONAIRES, BILLIONAIRES and GA-ZILLIONAIRES, a-hem, excuse me, I meant "For the Job Creators"........(sorry sir, more porridge please ??). Gee, that's funny, where are the jobs ??? and 2 trillion to try and jump start the US ecomomy, and continue to pay out Government Socialism benefits (also called MEDICARE, MEDICAID and SOC SEC and PRESCRIPTION DRUG BENEFITS, hey, not a PEEP from Tea-Partiers on that $500 billion dollar a year boon-doggle) to Tea Partiers, and send $1.45 to RED STATES for every $1 they COLLECT from RED states. Whew, I think that just about covers it.

The idea that the Americans need IDs to vote is wrong. All these years without these ID laws and there has been an infinitesimal number of proven fraud cases. It's bogus , A law has been passed to prevent a wrong that doesn't exist. Excuse me if something smells fishy here. The research shows no discern-able fraud, but does show the people most adversely affected by the law happen to vote mostly Democratic. There appears to be an inconsistency in the current love of the Constitution, and the specious need for this law. These laws will not pass the smell test in court. I agree with Northern Knight. We are talking about a constitutional right. And this law is a calculated attempt to prevent people the opportunity to vote. It all sounds so okay, all you need to do is go get an ID from the DMV. Well there is evidence to show it is not as simple as it is being made to seem. And there is a fee (Poll Tax) and if the court okays the ID but not the fee, states such as SC with a .0002% of fraud cases since 2005 I believe, will be burdened with paying the costs.
This whole thing is just flat out wrong. Men and women throughout history have died fighting to protect the one thing held most valuable by countries around the world, the right to vote. I know the ID does not prevent you from voting, there is no proof of wrong doing so what is the need for the law. It's an outrageous thing to be occurring in the USA. Where is the outrage???

Northern Knight: I wish you luck with trying to prove something with facts. Your peeing in the wind. Facts went out of style with the first Teahadist demonstration. If it was pouring rain and Teahadist were soaking wet they would deny the very fact that it is raining. Rain? That's Liberal science. Doesn't exist! I have tried with every known fact to challenge the ideological mind set of some people. The facts don't matter, reason why? They look at the source of the fact and the belief it refutes. Don't even try to change a mind with the facts. The belief system of the GOP-Teahadist Party advocates, is not intended to prove them right, it is solely to make them justified in their hatred of The President of the United States of America. That's what it all comes down to.

JOHN H: With the Presidential candidates the GOP-Teahadist Party have put forward, the entire GOP-Teahadist Party is DOA.

There is no doubt in my mind, that the A.L.E.C. contrivers were well aware of the difficulties of getting an ID card. This was not an over night notion that came to a state legislator, this is way beyond their intellectual level. This is a highly intelligent plan devised to disrupt the upcoming elections. I support my suspicions by looking at a totally A.L.E.C. controlled state legislature in Wisconsin. Anti Union law, Voter ID law. Both A.L.E.C. generated legislation. And coincidentally the same legislation popping up in GOP controlled States. A.L.E.C. is set on writing legislation for state and federal lawmakers to push went the legislatures in session.
ALEC: … to advance the Jeffersonian principles of free markets, limited government, federalism, and individual liberty, through a nonpartisan public-private partnership of America’s state legislators, members of the private sector, the federal government, and general public. All sounds good , except every one of their goals are the buzz words since Obama entered the White House. Free Marketws, Limited Government, Liberty all noble goals, but I'm curious as to how these goals became talking points used by everyone on the right and the Teahadist Party. And all talking point are repeated exactly the same way by every diverse right wing group. No coincidence. THE FOLLOWIG SHOULD CONCERN PEOPLE: A public-private partnership of America’s state legislators and members of the private sector.

John H: Yes the: They Flipped Their Whigs Party.

John H: The America the GOP Teahadist want back is all an illusion in their mind. They woke up one day and America and the ideal they had for their illusion, had in their minds, been stolen. Technology had advanced the planet to a new time and space. A place where a black man can be president, women could be empowered, secularism was the new mind set, old biases and dislikes had been practically eliminated. There was a new form of personal liberty, a new language, a bigger rainbow of citizens, with personal rights. They slept through the 8 years of BUSH, which was a pleasant nap, to wake up to what they perceive as a horror show. America hasn't really changed at it's core, they have changed. From lethargy to become a Pessimistic, negative, angry tribe of stragglers.

William, do we need to take a walk through the history of the Democrat party with it's Jim Crow laws, KKK, anti-civil rights activities, and communism takeover? Some people paid attention through the years and took notes. Your progressives weren't able to wipe history clean as they wished.

Yea, it's all about raaaacism! http://www.statejournal.com/story/17013562/voter-registration-cleanup-moves-through-senate-committee PS, I love how the professional left that post here use cute words like "Teahadist" when it is the left that loves to work with radical islam.

I'm a professional Patriot, looking out for Constitutional flim-flaming. Re:Teahadist. It is a specific appellation applied to the methodology of the TP's use of anger, pessimism, negativity and self loathing. And, the demonizing of it's opponents. Ergo;Teahadist. It's a far cry from your uncorroborated remark; "work with radical Islam." I at least try to clarify my point of view with out the use of ideological, careless and unsubstantiated talking points. You throw out a remark, "work with radical Islam." with no explanation, like me saying :"you're an idiot," without knowing you or backing up my pronouncement with some substance, not right. When the best you got is some borrowed slogan from some phony news source or radio blowhard. I am not surprised that the Constitution quoting Right Wing, would not concern themselves with the egregious attempt at voter suppression under the specious argument of voter fraud. Tthere is no indication of wide spread voter fraud to be found. It's a law stated to prevent a crime, where there is no crime. It's shameful the Constitution loving Right Wing opts to over look the Constitution in a nefarious attempt to disenfranchise Americans by jeopardizing the rock Democracy rests on; the right to vote. I await your well researched and explanatory riposte of the legality of the ID law. Please no talking points or slogans allowed. I want to know how it is not a voter suppression law. No name calling Teahadist tactic. Avoid, if possible.

Commie?, Due to my love of country and rights of others? You have an aversion to that? The US of A Constitution provides and protects the right to vote. I express my 1st amendment right to free speech in defense of the constitution and hate voter ID laws. USSR demanded that the Russian people had IDs at all times: to buy food, taking a midnight stroll, that's okay with you. Well look who is calling me a communist. A died in the wool Totalitarian, a fake American. Your in the wrong century and continent. 1915, Russian Revolution, suspension of all rights, Martial Law. That to your liking, Ducky? The give away? Your defense of the specious Voter ID law, The fact you don't see it as wrong, indicates you are okay with the State stomping on the Constitution and citizen's rights. You're a Leninist I take it. A Soviet. So comrade when you assess your compliance to a constitutional wrong, think about who is next. The face looking back at you in the mirror. I am not impressed by your juvenile skill at riposting. Don't hurt your brain. 2 and 1/3 inarticulate sentences. Not a lick of substance. Just parrot talk supplied by BECKY-FATTY & HAMMITY. Can't generate a thought on your own, Ducky. Being able to know what your talking about takes effort. I suggest you turn off FOX & FATTY, get up off your ass, get out and get some sunlight and clear you head. It's a beautiful country we have, in spite of what BECKY-FATTY & HAMMITY tell you. Peace, Comrade.

Must be great to sit back and let other people do your thinking for you, Wow, you got it down to one sentence of non substantive content. Next time? No words. Because yo have run out of them.

The ID requirement to vote reminds me when I had to go into the fields to sign up minorities to register to vote. This law is an infringement against decency and human rights. This law is out of the camp of God's will for his people not to be in bondage.

Why is it that some of the leaders in South Carolina are so sure that they are right and are they are ready to put chains around freedom for all people in South Carolina???

Mary P. Miles

SDR,
Diluted? How so? if you're referring to the Dead Voters, that has failed to be proven in every state where it has been investigated. Such as the above article indicates it failed to show anything in the most recent attempt in South Carolina. I do not see it as a co-incidence that several states decide almost simultaneously to enact a Voter ID law. This legislation was a Model Bill presented at an ALEC conference, much like the anti-collective bargaining bill. If you're not familiar with ALEC it is where big business can cozy up with State legislators and submit pre- designed and written "Model Bills" for the legislators to take home and offer as a bill in their respective state's legislatures. The state legislator does not have anything to do with the origination of the bill, just takes it home and introduces it as an agent for which ever corporation gave it to the legislator. Kind of strange. But draws no concern from the Right. The legislator acquiesces to the needs and demands of the corporation. Obediently takes bill home and submits it to the Legislature as a bill the legislator wrote his or her self, they are not obligated to reveal the source. 90+% of ALEC members are GOP or Teahadist Party members.
This is something citizens should be concerned about. GOP state legislators such as Scott Walker are members of ALEC and under the control of the Corporate members. The KOCH Brothers are members and financial supporters of ALEC.

SDR... Don't you ever tire of pessimism, negativity, hopelessness, and self-loathing. Your days must be awful. To wake up everyday with a cloud hanging over your head. In your vain attempt to get some sunlight into your life you resort to biased, negative, pessimistic haranguing. Desperately awaiting for FOX-BECK & FATTY to tell you why your life is so sad. Their daily dose of "who to Blame." If I may, check out the reflection in the mirror, there you will find the source of the dark clouds in your life.

There are no DNC operatives on this thread, that's just your defensive nature, looking for a reason there are so many people with an opposite view of life, one you can't or are not interested in comprehending. I for one come to this thread to learn about the steel trap ideology of the misinformed pissed off people who comprise the army of foot soldiers for the GOP-Teahadist Party. At first I could not believe the amount of misinformation I found, and then the total lack of interest in facts, total lack of interest in thinking out side of the box of FOX-BECK & FATTY's steady flow of propaganda. Plus the limited amount of subsistence contained in the Ripostes. Name calling, slogan tossing, FOX-BECK & FATTY talking points used over and over like a thread filled with Stepford wives. I am not here for the DNC, this is a mission of mercy for me. The Lord has sent me to do my Christian duty and lead my fellow man out of the darkness of Anger, pessimism, negativity, self-loathing. I have no way of forcing you to come out of the darkness and into the sunlight, but I have my civic and Christian duty to at least try. God Bless.

REG: you're wasting your time on Tonto his Kimo Sabe is the all in one trinity of FOX-BECK & FATTY. He is obligated to them. He will stay the wrong course to the death. His loyalty to pessimism, negativity, anger and misinformation is unshakeable. I think, actually, I know , he is a lost cause. He prefers to live and thrive in the Darkness with the Teahadist Party and their minions who pray at the altar of distorted points of view.

REG: Don't hold your breath waiting for proof of anything the GOP-Teahadist claim. I will guarantee you will get barraged with insults, slogans and talking points. These are programmed people, Loyal to FOX-BECK & FATTY's anger filled propaganda. The best you can do is give it as you get it , that is the only way they know how to debate. They thrive on the old: "Oh Yeah, so are you." Never any substance, just 1 or 2 lines of "Oh yeah, so are you."

Still a big issue - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwhKuunp8D8

The Republican National Lawyers Association (RNLA) issued its own report on voter fraud, apparently culled from a media search of election fraud-related arrests and convictions from 2000 to 2010. The RNLA's figures show that 21 states had only one or two convictions for some voter irregularity. Another five states had three convictions over a 10-year stretch. Rhode Island had four convictions over the 10-year period. Taking a close look at the RNLA data shows 30 states, including the District of Columbia had three or less voter fraud convictions for a 10-year period.
These are your sides attorneys. Your comrades, comrade. I kknow I boring you with facts again. You can refute yourself if you like , but that would appear to be a crazt thing to do. Shoving your own words down your own throat. Sorry, Ducky. Yu be proven wrong again, this time by your own comrades, comrade.

We definitly need a new a law to curtail that massive amount of voter fraud cases. Voter ID, is clearly not a legal issue, it is a flim-flam being played out by terrified GOP-Teahadists and their obedient foot soldiers, who sense a change in the wind, and if they can find some fraudulent way of stealing elections then they will.

TONTO: Take a break and take your sheer stupidty and disregard for truth and facts with you. You lose every dumbass argument you put forth. Cittizenship, you got to be kidding, this has lost in court everytime. The Supreme Court refuses to hear it, becasue it is a bogus issue with no facts to back it up. If you would spend half the time I do to support my comments, you may actually come out the other end with a modicum of intelligence. Your thoughts and comments are silly, your insluts are juvenial, and your understanding of what you talk about is nil, nada, nothing. You're a stooge for the GOP-Teahadists and their pessimistc, negative, angry, misinformed and self-loathing ideology. Sorry, Ducky you have to leave the classroom if you have no intention of learning anything. You're bugging the other students. One would think the RNC would have an intelligence test for its stooges on this thread. You get an F in Politics, Jurisprudence and over all common sense. You should be expelled, or left back a grade, so you can catch up. God Bless, I will say a prayer for you, Ducky. All the best.

REG: I have come to the conclusion that TONTO is suffering from such a massive case of low self esteem. It is the only conclusion I can arrive at based on his comments, which lack substance, originality and any sign of intelligence. He avoids facts, because they may eliminate his life line to Anger, Hatred, Pessimism, Negativity and Self-loathng. Without these, he would otherwise have nothing going for him. Try United States v Wong Kim Ark (1896) The Supreme Court of the USA, ruled Mr. Ark a natural born citizen because he was born on US soil, and also neither of his parents were American citizens. It has been the law since then, born in the USA=Natural Born Citizan. There have been cases over the years which have challenged this ruling. All have failed. Born here+natural born citizen. End of subject. This is the reason the current SCOTUS will not hear arguments.

TONTO: Not that you're gonna give a rat's Butt, but here goes, thousands die across the USA from gun violence, incident today at a highschool many wounded one dead. Now why is it when the mentiond of gun owners ID for purcahing guns is mentioned you and your crowd start crying 2nd Amendment, but the supression of voiting via a specific form of voter ID is brought up you and your crowd cheers and jumps for joy. Now I don't expect an intelligent answer, but it is a fair question, why the hypocracy. Vote and guns rights are protected by the same constitution, why is there a discrepancy with the two opposing views you hold re 2 constitutionally protected rights.

Stanley Seigler: If what yo suggesst is true, then TONTO is an even bigger putz than I thought. If this is how he spends his days, poor soul, make that lost soul. He reminds me of another jerk who used to troll the Patch threads, just as dumb, ignorant and suffering with the same level of self esteem/ Probably the same putz. What a pathetic waste of time. Adios, Comrade TONTO the Soviet, Hi-Ho Silver and away.

Stupid is as Stupid Does, TONTO's box of chocolates are all the same. You do know what you're gonna get. Nil. Zero. Zilch.

JoSCh: But does it happen on a scale that a law to prevent it causes an other problem, one more unacceptible than the initial problem? Is it necessay to inadvertantly cause duress and potential loss of voting rights to some of the citizens of the USA, where due diligence at the polling stations could rectifiy the problem with voter fraud. Most of the fraud cases used to demonstrate the massive fraud the GOP suggests exists, the people involved did not get to vote. Everything in life has a flaw, but you don't react in a way that jeopadizes peoples lives and rights, A few fraudulent votes is less ergregous to me than one US Citizen denied the right to vote due to a technicality. Sad to say, these laws are not about voter fraud, they are about voter suppression, and if there is an honest GOPer out there involved with this legisaltion who would come forth and show me , why the bill exists when there is a miniscule number of voter fraud convictions. This is a dangerous political stunt, I see no other reason for it. It is overkill. You're nuking a house because someone saw a mouse in the kithchen, when a piece of cheese and a mouse trap would have sufficed.

@JoSCh: Voter fraud does happen!
INDEED IT DO!...but NOT type of voter fraud voter ID laws might serve to deter...

[CLIP]
"Perhaps the cruelest irony in all of this? Neither Prude’s nor Ali’s case would have been deterred by the polling place photo ID restriction laws now in effect. In fact, during the Bush administration’s unprecedented years-long attempt to prosecute “voter fraud” cases, they were unable to find a single case of in-person polling place impersonation — the only type of voter fraud such laws might serve to deter — across the entire nation."
http://www.salon.com/2012/02/27/vote_fraud_retires_shameless_gop_official/singleton/

thanks fot the link...

JoSCh: Also, yesterday there was a shooting at a High School in Ohio, a third student died today. There are people in our country, having seen the senseless gun related violence that occurs quite regularly. No need for research, the deaths of innocent people are adding up. It has been suggested that gun show dealers should ask for IDs and do background checks. This suggestion is met by an uproar from the same side of the aisle who feel a desperate need for Voter ID to prevent a negligable number of voter fraud case, but way too many deaths by guns does get a murmur. The same Constitution which contains voting and gun ownership rights, is ignored in one situation and hailed in another. One law is intended to stop nothing, the lack of another costs human lives. There is something really scary about the frame of mind of someone in power to be excited about Voter ID, and upset about the notion of saving lives. This is a disturbing point of view particularly from the party which professes a respect for the Constitution of the USA.

Look, those of us that keep attempting to show people it is raining out, and they should get an umbrella. Are up against a societal affliction, where the warned will go outside, get soaking wet, come back in and tell we are dead wrong. These people are lost causes. They are entrapped in a bad psycholgical quicksand pit, and refuse to accept they are going to die if they don't get out. This passion for hate, anger, negativity and pessimism, which is quite recognizable by the very ripostes they submit. Typically filled with, insults, slogans, misrepresented info, or no substance what so ever, to explain their anger, hatred, lack of back up to the slogans and talking points constantly parroted over and over, each using the exact same wording and misinformation. If the intention is to have a dialogue, with ideas shared and a pursuasive debate, it will not be found with these folks. They are so unhappy, angry, filled with bitterness, and pessimism, they are incapable of letting down their guard to take a shot at knowing what they are talking about. It's a personality disorder and has been spresading like a virus ever since the Teahadist Party raised it's ill informed , angry, negative, nativist, pessimistic, anti rights head and unleased the sadness in people.

Don't forget, William - the Tea Party was created by GOP folks in order to rein in particular voters they were losing. If they couldn't keep them in as registered GOP, they thought to create a new group, and to make them anti-progress. Same age range/income group/educational status/race/occupational fields - most of which had stopped voting in GOP primaries or who had switched party registration from Repub to independent. Since they couldn't keep them on their side, the GOP thought to mislead them with false information to at least get them to be against the other side. It's backfired on them in a few spots, though, mostly Florida. The GOP did the same thing back in '71, when those Republican congressmen created the Libertarian Party to keep hold of young college grads who were upset w/ the war.